Customer Success Leader
Customer Success Leader

Episode · 1 year ago

Start Involving Customer Success in Sales w/ Josh Fedie

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Have you ever been to a party with a friend who doesn’t introduce you to anyone? So you just stand there awkwardly and count the seconds before you can leave. 

 

It’s a less than desirable experience, right? Why do we make customers go through it then?

 

Josh Fedie, the founder of SalesReach.io, joins Eric to help resolve the awkwardness that is traditional sales handoffs. Plus, the two talk about… 

 

- How to mitigate buyer’s remorse for new customers

 

- Why sales should be involved after the initial sale

 

- What B2B customer success can learn from B2C

 

Check out Josh’s show, The Buyer Enablement Podcast.

 

For more info, check out customersuccessleader.com or send a message to hello@flatfile.io.

 

To hear more interviews like this one, subscribe to Customer Success Leader on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

What I can promise you is that it grows to be a big amount of virus remorse very quickly if we don't deliver on our promises immediately and give them less reasons to question whether or not they made the right decision. Want to create delightful customer experiences. You're in the right place. Welcome to customer success leader, where you'll learn about the successes and struggles of leaders who are passionate about their craft. Trust me, you want to stick around. Here's your host, Eric Crane. Hey, y'all, it's Ark Crane, Co founder and CEO, here at flat file, and today I'm joined by Josh Phoebe on the customer success leader podcast. Josh joins us from sales or each out. I Hey, Josh, how you doing? I'm great. How are you can't complain too much. We got a little cold spell here in Atlanta a couple days ago. I think it was what, seventy degrees in September? Oh to Oh. I feel just absolutely horrible for you. WE'RE IN MINNESOTA. We had freezing rain. Just the other day. I had to stand outside in a socially distanced events in the rain for two hours to give a presentation on social selling. How Fun is that? So I feel absolutely horrible for you at seventy. Are you kidding me? Anyway? Well, I will say that I do is the one part of the Midwest that I don't miss very much. I used to live Madison, Wisconsin, and the early winter, you know, getting snow and like September and October, just not for me. Not the southern or yeah, no, it's not for everybody. I've always told people you have to find ways to embrace the seasonal changes. Right. So for me and the summertime, I like to go to car shows, I like to drive my fun cars and I like to ride road bikes. In the wintertime I've taken on cross country skiing and fat biking in the snow, right and then that way, when the seasons come, I'm actually a little bit excited about it because there's something new that I wasn't able to do for the previous six months. But it doesn't make it okay, it doesn't make it acceptable to live in a place that gets to be thirty below at times, but that's what we're doing. Well it well. So I understand from our previous conversation you've got some pretty interesting things going...

...on at sales or reach. So I'd love for you to explain to our listeners a little bit more about what you do there and how you stumbled into this area of working with customer success. So much right. Yeah, no, and we definitely did stumble into it. So my background, I've been in sales and marketing rolls my entire career. So for the last twenty years, give or take, the bulk of my career has been in business development roles and primarily working for creative services companies or digital firms. But near the tail end of my career working for other people, the last six years specifically, I was working in digital product development and that's where I really discovered my true passion, which is creating things. I loved working with customers that had ideas for things and creating those things, and one day I just had the lightbulb moment for an idea that I wanted to create and I realized that I actually had what I needed at my dispos ousily get that created, because I had this group of people that I had worked with in my previous lives that were experts in building these types of things, and why not just take a chance so where sales reach actually came from was fifteen years ago. I own to my own marketing agency and I absolutely hated my business development process, and so I started building custom landing pages for my customers to review the information that they needed to review during the deal cycle, because what I was noticing is that sending a whole bunch of emails with attachments wasn't really working well for me and it doesn't honestly work well for anybody right because when you email a whole bunch of attachments to people, all they do is lose them and your hope is that they're going to present it to their team. What you're trying to do is build internal advocates, but when you make the deal challenging for them, you make their job challenging. They have to download all this stuff, re uploaded somewhere else, figure out how to share it. Things get lost, things get forgotten, things get not shared for unknown reasons. It's not a great sales process. So I originally built this for myself. Is just my own tool. Fifteen years ago I started working for a hub spot agency...

...and that's when I learned a lot more about what was happening within bound marketing, and that's when I realized that the product I had built fifteen years ago was a huge gap in the market place right now, that inbound marketing the way modern buyers by today. We weren't responding to the way they wanted to buy in a bob space appropriately. We were giving them the information they were seeking in a digital space, but the digital interactions pretty much stopped once they finally raised their hand and said I want to talk to a sales round and I just found that to be a little bit ridiculous. And so it was at that point that we decided to build sales reach and, like you said, we stumbled into customer success. I thought, I'm a sales guy, this is the tool I need to make selling easier and to make buying easier for my customers. But the reality is, as you've found with your company as well, there's a lot of other customer facing teams with a lot of important information that needs to go ouut some prospects and or to customers, and a lot of information coming from customers. Someone needs to organize that, and shouldn't you be the one organizing that? So we started to get embraced by customer success. Teams, on boarding and training teams, project management teams, just as a way to make a seamless way to interact with their now customers and give them a central source for all the things they need. So that's how we kind of stumbled in the customer success it's really cool. I love how the market has guided your career and your business. Right, you're solving a problem that is known, but you maybe didn't necessarily know that that was a problem being faced by others. Right, yes, at least. Me To another question, which is, given that you don't have that necessarily traditional customer success background, not that there's any traditional customer success background, how do you define customer success? Yeah, so I actually went to a little college you might know of called Harvard, and I took their courses on customer success specific I'm kidding, I'm totally kitty. No, you're right. I mean there's how do you define it? And so many businesses define it differently.

But for me customer success has become so critically important to my own business. Number One, now that I own a SASS based company, I'm learning that if you don't service those people that just came on as customers, that just gave you their money. If you don't put every ounce of your effort into those people, you experience more churn then you want to experience as a SASS based company. The better experience you give them and the more white glove service you give them, the longer they stick around. But what's really important to me, the thing that I focus on above all and the thing that ties my background in sales and marketing to my now focus in customer success, is I'm always focused on the experience that I'm creating when somebody is working with me, at whatever stage in their journey they're in, whether it's pre or post sales, what is the experience of buying from my company and working with my company? Because what I have learned firsthand is that if you create a powerful experience, something that's memorable, something that's lasting, something that makes them feel like they made the right choice, they become your advocates, not only within their business that they work at, but to the people in their network that they know. And for our business specifically, that is our primary mode of business development. We get a lot of inquiries from current customers network that are saying hey, we saw that they're using this or hey, they reached out to us and said they absolutely love this, this tool and we want to check it out now as well. That doesn't happen unless you create a great experience for those people. And that point where it goes from sales to customer success or two on boarding to train, wherever goes after sales, that is the most critical point in any business because, as you know, every time you've made a purchase in your life we all have buyers remorse the second we...

...lay that money down. We all do, and it's either a big amount of byrs remorse or it's a tiny amount, but what I can promise you is that it grows to be a big amount of virus remorse very quickly if we don't deliver on our promises immediately and give them less reasons to question whether or not they made the right decision. Yeah, and I love to dig into that a little bit more because I absolutely agree with you right. We live in a subscription based world in says, so it's not like you sell a customer once. You're having to sell them constantly. You have to constantly be proving out the value of what you're providing. So tell me a little bit more about that transition from a precustomer relationship to a post customer relationship and how you optimize for long term value for your customers. Yeah, I so. I follow a methodology that I recently discussed. I have my own podcast as well, called the buyer enablement podcast. We actually just kicked that one off of our first guest was a man named Todd Hockinberry, and if you aren't familiar with Todd Hockinberry, you absolutely should be. He's a genius. But I follow the exact same methodology he does and I always have in my career, and that is that the customer facing teams that were involved in securing a deal and growing that deal should not disappear. And what I mean by that is I've worked at a lot of organizations where sales lands the deal and now it's being handed off to another departments and it's like, okay, sales, go, go sell something else, we don't need you anymore. Will hold on a minute. Why don't you need me anymore? Because, let's be honest here, who has the trust right now? Who was the person that brought this deal in based on trust, based on reasonable and understanding and mutual understanding of what was going to happen next. And don't you think that that new customer wants to have sales involved in this discussion, to be their...

...advocate? They want to feel like they have an advocate internally and they also want to know that if something isn't going the way that they were promised it was going to go, that that person that made those promises is going to be readily available to them to point out. Hold on a minute now, Josh, you told me this is how this was going to go and this is how it's going now. So let's reconcile this right away. And so the methodology that I've always tried to have in my life, in the only times where it has and is when I'm working for someone else that doesn't agree with this, is to keep those teams involved into not so much have a handoff process, but to have introductions, the introductions to additional teams that are now coming into the equation and making sure that everybody's aligned on who they are, what they do, when you would need them, what you should be asking them for, but always being available, because you know, customer success is absolutely responsible for a lot of revenue in an organization. They absolutely are, but I have seen time and time again that that revenue can grow exponentially if the customer success team in the sales team are staying in contact and are working that customer together, ensuring that that customer is getting what they signed on for and is happy and making sure that the right person is checking in with them at the right time and bringing them additional information that will help move the needle towards more revenue. That's how I approach it. Yeah, you beat me to my next question to I want to ask a little bit more about how customer success folks can actually enable that constant expansion or growth opportunities within accounts. But since you've already talked about that at a high level, I want to get down the specifics, like how do you coach Customer Success Reps to be good partners for a sales process without damaging trust that they established as a non salesperson within the business? Yeah, that is a it's a great question and again it's going to be different at every organization, but I think that the one thing that isn't different, at least in my mind, is sales...

...professionals job should really be to set their additional teammates up for success right. So they should be explaining the story early on in the discussions that, if you choose to move forward with this, the people and the teams that I'm going to be introducing you to are these and singing their praises. The reason I'm going to be introducing you to so andso in customer success is because she's absolutely incredible at this specific thing, which I know is something that you're looking for, and I want to make sure to align you with the right person for that. Beyond that person and that division, you're going to be introduced to this person on this team and this person, man, you're what you're going to love about this person? Is this right? Really set your team up for success as a salesperson like sell those abilities that your team has. Get them in there, because then when those additional teams come in, they know why they're coming in, they know who they are, they know the value that they're bringing to it. And as long as you're chewing your team into the things that you've said, the conversations you've had, start involving them earlier than later. You it's okay to involve them before the deal is closed. As a matter of fact you should be. I mean, in most businesses, involving those additional layers earlier than the then later is just going to help amplify that deal, help speed it up for you right, because they're going to have even more trust that when this moves forward. Not only do I like Josh who sold this in, but I like the next person, the Josh is going to introduce me to as well, and I like the person that's going to come into the picture later too. I trust that this entire team, it's not just you as the sales professional selling it in. It's not just you as the customer success person trying to find additional dollars after you've brought it in. It's involving the team, the group working together is really where you're going to find that mix. But I think, beyond that, to just kind of round out your question, salespeople and Customer Success People and marketing people we think differently, we write differently, we talked differently. Right, we're different. That's why we're in different roles. We have skill sets that are very applicable in those different roles and one thing that I talked...

...to a lot of people about a lot is, you know, when you're in sales, the kind of emails that you send are much different than when you're in marketing. The kind of emails you send there and there are a lot different than the emails that you send when you're in customer success. Customer Success and project management teams are very detailed. Sales people aren't always super detailed right. It kind of depends on the business that they're going after, but we're kind of in the business is short and sweet and fast. That's what sales people do right, and so helping your customers success teams and your other customer facing teams understand what this customer is expecting from you from a communication standpoint is also really, really important. And helping those teams understand when a sale needs to be made, when an upgrade to this a count needs be made or when we need to move this to another level. Here's how this customer responds well to that. Don't think like a marketer here, don't think like a project management professional here. Let's really think like a salesperson here, let's write like a salesperson here, and that's sometimes really hard for other teams, customer facing teams, to understand. We're doing an experiment right now at sales reach, where my marketing manager, jared, is effectively working as a parttime sales professional in our sales team. Why are we doing that? Well, other than just to kind of like, you know, beat him up a little bit, because why not? It's kind of fun. But no, we want our marketing team to understand exactly what sales is going through in the field. We want our marketing team to hear firsthand what customers are saying on those demo calls, because I think that what we're going to find, and what we're already finding, is that it informs our strategy from a content perspective. Additionally, it's informing our customer success teams as to where the most amount of training is going to be required at post sale, where the bulk of the questions are going to be post sale, what kind of the future iterations of our software are going to be important to communicate to those customers after we bring them into upgrade their accounts and things of that nature bring an additional revenue. So it's all so important. And where does it go wrong? I...

...don't know, where do you start with that? What I mean it could go wrong in so many different ways right. But I mean, I think the number one place where deals go wrong is when there isn't appropriate a communication internally for the company, when they do consider it more of a handoff and less of an introduction, and when the when the appropriate information is not handed off appropriately and it's a true hand off, words like okay, I'm out of here now. Well, that's when customer success comes into the folding goes all right, let me ask you fifty questions that sales already asked you, and I'm going to waste the next two hours of your life asking you things that you already answered. And he didn't. He or she did not give me that information, so I have to ask you this again. That moment right there, that's like red alert for any new customer. It's come on, we just spent all this time together figuring out that we were going to move forward and that this was a good fit. How did none of this information make its way to you? This doesn't make any sense right. Don't put customers through that. That's where it starts going wrong, and I hear that pretty consistently, which is it's really normally not the customer's fault when you have an issue like that. I mean if the sales team, which is trained on understanding and identifying what the value is for perspective customers, says there's definitely value to be found here and that customer ends up turning a few months later, a couple of years later, it's usually a miscommunication. Internally. The value still there, it's more about, hey, we're not seeing that your team actually cares as much about the value that we want to achieve. So how do you kind of turn that into a succinct transition of information in terms of goals that the cus SMER wants to accomplished? Like, how do you make sure that that knowledge gets transferred in a way that a salesperson and a customer success person could both equally understand? Yeah, and before I answer that, what I would actually take a step back and say, because one of the things you said made me think of it as well, is we...

...need to hold our client facing teams accountable for gathering the right information to qualify that this is actually a good customer fit. Right, and this is something that I talk to a lot of sales professionals about. Bringing on customers that are not a good fit is going to damage you in multiple ways. Number one, it's going to it's going to damage your personal brand. You're not going to be the person that gets warm leads from your network anymore when you're selling deals that aren't a good fit, because if they're not a good fit, they're not going to bring the results that they expected. Number One. Number two, if they're not a good fit and you're not gathering the information that you need, then you don't have any information to bring your customer your other customer facing teams up to speed and set them up for success. And now, if you get to that level, now you've wasted time and effort and resources and multiple divisions in your organization to do nothing but lose a customer. And we all know there isn't a business out there that isn't frontloaded. Right. All of US lose a lot of money in those first couple months because we don't actually make money on a customer until the six month point of them staying in. Right that's when we start seeing the return on the investment and bringing that customer in. So we got to be really, really, really careful about how we're bringing those customers in. But my main focus every single day is very similar to your focus at your company. We talked about this at the beginning of the call. My product in your product solved for almost the exact same thing, but in reverse, which is really funny to me. It's awesome to like get connected with you because we're focused on immediately after you land the deal. We need to organize this like we need to make sure that everyone has a central source of truth moving forward, and that is how our product became a customer success software on its own was because that is a challenge that customer facing teams have every single day. Now that we have this customer it there's not just information that needs to be distributed in the...

...sales process, there is information that's being distributed post sale in a myriad of departments, and if we stopped organizing that at any point, then it becomes frustrating for our customers. Now, the challenge that our customers were facing was their sales teams. Using our software, we're becoming more organized in their prospects minds than they ever had been because they stopped sending PDFs and loose attachments in emails and dropping off brochers printed grocers. Can you believe that they stopped doing all of that? Stuff and they started organizing it in this portal. And then what happened immediately after that was their customers that now came on. We're saying, well, wait, well now, why aren't we continuing to do this? And that's literally how our products started to being used by customer facing teams in customer success and on boarding and training. Was Our customers, customers, saying well, wait a minute, we love that product you used in the sales cycle. Why aren't you using it here anymore? Right, if you listen to your customers, they'll tell you exactly what they need to be happy working with you. and honestly, who doesn't want a little bit more organization in their life? Why should we have to dig through endless amounts of emails and attachments and all kinds of different sources? Think of all the tools we use every day. I have customers that I communicate with on text, slack, email linkedin. I mean, there's communications going on in so many different places. It's so crazy. We need to be better about organizing everything, because otherwise this is where you slow down deals, this is where miscommunication happens, this is where other team members that need to see things can't see things. Everyone needs visibility on both sides, and if we don't have that visibility on both sides, then we're going to have issues. As a builder, I can empathize with that more. Right, like the technology should be working for us, not against us, and every time, you know's a place where this is something that tech could do right, like, let's let's find a way to solve that problem with with the machines. Right. Have the humans focus on the things that humans are best at, building relationships, building intuition and providing guidance, personal connections, and that's the out like you...

...said, that's what we focus on. Is a business to is like, Hey, can we have humans do things that human should be doing and machines do things that machine should be doing? Well, let's hope it stays that way. I recently read an Article Gartner. Gartner does some incredible studies. Gartner has done some great studies on what's called by or enablement, and that's that's what we that's kind of the heading that we put our software under, is buy or enablements. Okay, and so they they've done a lot of great articles about that that I'd be happy to send to you after we're done here. If you're ensuing looking into those as well. But beyond that, I came across something new, a new term just the other day via Gartner, called guided selling, and this scared me a little bit because in a way, what our software is doing is helping to guide customers through their buying process. Right it's helping sales people to help guide their customers to the right conclusions. But what Gartner was focusing on right now our sales tools that are doing this through Ai. This scares me to death. Man. I'm not a huge fan of AI right now. I honestly haven't seen a lot of ai that I believe is truly Ai. For being honest, most of it, if you pull it back the curtain, it's like, oh, cool, there's a bunch of people pushing a bunch of buttons, and that's what's actually happening. Great, but what you said there is so important to me. People buy from people and people will always buy from people, especially the people that they like and trust, and I don't think that robots will ever be able to reply place that. I do think that we need to infuse smart technology into our sales efforts to help guide the buyer through where they're going. But you know, some of the technologies that they were focusing on in this article are literally a handsoff approach for salespeople like it's just going to magically give people this, based on some predetermined equation to give them this, and I'm like, I'm terrified the people are even thinking this could happen right because,...

...you know, is it cool? Yeah, it's cool, but like, why would we take the human out when we know that the human is the differentiator and any deal? We know that the human is the differentiator any experience created for a customer. We've all tried to call into customer support line and had to listen to a robot talk to us for far longer than we want to. Are we friendly to the the human that finally gets on the phone when they do? Absolutely not. We all have bots on our website that start to answer questions for people. Have you seen some of the nasty things that people put into bots? And the best part about those botses when I intervene, when I come into the BOT, when I come into the conversation, they just assume I'm not a person because they were already talking to a Bot and they say horrible things to me and I have to say no, no, I'm the CEO of this company. I'm just jumping in here to give you an actual human here. This is I'm not a robot. Please don't, don't use those words with me right here right but we just get programmed to like we're always thinking that these robots are out to get us right now, and I don't see happy customers dealing with ai situations, I really don't. But I see people turning around and getting really happy once they know they're actually talking to a person. So it's it. There's a big Delta that's going to have to be crossed before I feel like a ibots are going to, you know, take over the humanized aspect of sales and I have to get a new career. But that's that's kind of where it's head. It's they're saying it's heading anyway. But I think the the whole point of a guided process. You're solving for that as well. I'm solving for that as well. A lot of companies are starting to figure this out. We do need to be guiding our customers through the process and reassuring them that they have what they need and that they made the right decision and that we're making good on all of our promises. And you know, not to be a total cliche, but in a BETB space, giving them the same sort of experience that they get in a BETC space, such as on Amazon, who has completely figured it all out as far as it comes with an experience right and telling them you might also be interested in this. I'm mean,...

...they have the whole business development and customer success mechanism built right in the Amazon last few weeks you were here. You bought this. Why didn't you get this? Ninety percent of our customers also got this. Well, if our customer success teams can start getting that Intel and acting that way in a bob space, we're going to win. Yeah, totally. And it's also a difference between the type of buying cycle that you might see. To write. If you're dealing with a transactional bay sale, first of all, you're probably not listening to this podcast because you're probably not in customer success, because you generally see customer success involved in a business where there is a relationship they sale and especially with the level of information that buyers that access to today. Absolutely the relationship is oftentimes a differentiator there and that's something that's very difficult to replicate absolutely. So I know we're getting up on time here. I like to ask a question about advice I'm making a little bit different for you, which is I want to know what your advice is for customer success folks who want to influence the way that the sales processes a run. All right, so you know my advice for that one, honestly, would be don't be afraid to stand up for yourself. I think I see a lot of customer success teams that are sometimes afraid to push back on sales, and I understand it, because a lot of people get into sales because when we turn it on, we are we're hard to say no to. When we turn it on, we come across very aggressively, and that's just a characteristic of a lot of salespeople. We like to win, we don't like to lose and we're we are aggressive people. But don't be afraid to stand up because at the end of the day this is going to be your mess to clean up if it's not going the right way, and so fight to be involved in the process earlier. Fight to know that when this becomes your primary focus, that you're going to be equipped with what you need to be successful in your role,...

...all so that you don't feel like you're being forced to perform when you don't have what you need to perform. Don't be afraid to speak up. At the end of the day, sales will see any sales professional should be, and I would have hope would be very receptive to that, because most sales professionals there's a clawback in their contract with their employer that if a deal goes south in a certain amount of time, we're taken back your commissions, and there is nothing that sales people hate more than losing commissions. So if you tell them I'm going to be able to better service your customers, if you give me x, Y Z, and if you involve me at this point and if you support me post sale on these initiatives, they will be all years because you're literally affecting the money they bring home if you don't perform and if you're not performing and it's outside of your control because you you're not getting what you need, get what you need. Yeah, and I mean also there's the longer run view of this to write, which is that in any subscription based business at a certain point your net new revenue from expansion and upsell is going to far exceed your revenue from net new sales. Right you're you're going to be working your existing customer base more than new market and I think customer success needs to be prepared for that responsibility to the organization, and that is by getting involved in the sales process as early as possible and understanding why customers even by well, I mean I'm sure you've seen the news. I'm sure that listeners to your podcast have seen this all over the news. How many more customer facing teams are being held to the fire for revenue expectations. I'm not sure where this came from, because it seems to coincide with Covid, which is kind of strange to me. I can't I can't like, I can't pin this on anything, but it seems like all the sudden...

...other customer facing teams are being held accountable for revenue, including marketing, and you're seeing both sides of the fence, where there's marketing professionals and customer success teams that are saying yes, we want to be held accountable for revenue. You're seeing the other side too. Were they're going now. That's not fair. You know, we've been putting together these greatly. It's not our problem that sales can't close it or the customer success has an insane churn rate, right, but I think that it is the right way to go. It falls in line with my belief that there shouldn't be a handoff, there should be introductions, and if there's more introductions and less handoffs, than those teams are aligned on ensuring that that revenue is growing and that those customers stay. Again, I don't know where it came from, but it's kind of a fascinating thing to watch happen right now. Well, it's interesting to talk to other folks on this podcast as well, who would say, well, really, customer success is us just like putting a face to really what we're trying to do as a business regardless. Right. So when you're in sales, you're really in customer success, when you're in marketing, your in customer success and when you're in product here in customer success, because it's all a line around creating value for the customer. If you don't, you don't have a business. Yeah, well, don't forget, I'm a sales professional so I would say if you're in marketing here, in sales, if you're in customer success, you're in sales, you're not. Not. I'm kiddy. That's what I would say, though, because I think, I do think everybody's responsible for revenue, right, and I think that you need to have a little piece in your head all the time, if you're not specifically in the sales department. That's your little sales piece right there that you can turn on when you need to and you can understand how to think and speak like a sales professional, right, because you need to know how to close. Everyone needs to know how to close. I was speaking with someone just the other day that I made a comment. He he had asked me do sales people are they always on? Are they always on? And I said no, absolutely not. Most sales professionals, most good sales professionals, are introverts. Most sales people, professionals, the sales professionals, know how to like turn it on. My marketing manager calls it the Josh Show. Right, whenever...

I get on these sorts of things, he sees me flip that mental switch and it turns into the Josh Show. And this is this is what comes out and and and that is what it is. But I was telling him, I said, look, look at the last time that you had a family get together for the holidays and you had to invite the inlaws over. Were you excited the entire day before the inlaws get there, or did you hear the doorbell ring and you take a moment, you pause and you turn on that switch and you go into happy mode right to turn into the entertainer. That's what sales people do every day. Then you let me know that it's been a long time since he had to go to a holiday and see in laws because he's single, and I informed them that if he was better at sales, we can probably solve that problem right there, right. So sales is an important, important ingredient in so many aspects of life, not just business but personally as well. Oh, I agree. Well, thank you so much for your time to day again, y'all. That was Josh feedy from sales reached out IO. I highly recommend you check out what they've got, especially for the customers success leaders out there who are looking to sablish strong, ongoing connections with your customers by making all the information they need readily available I'm are crane from flat file, signing off on this episode of Customer Sus later. You depend on the fastest time to value for your customers, so I light data on board and sell you down. Stop emailing spreadsheets, creating CSB templates or setting up FTP transfers. Create collaboratives, secure workspaces with your customers and their data, saving you time while providing a memorable onboarding experience. Oh and there's no code required. You can go to flat file DOT IO C S leader to learn more and get started for free. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. Customer Success leader is brought to you by flat file. If you're a fan of the show and want to help a share these conversations with others, leave us a rating on apple podcast. Just tap the number of stars you think the show deserves. That's it for today. Catch you in the next one.

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